I Went To John MacArthur’s Church

Pastor MacArthur decided to reopen his mega-sized Grace Community Church in blatant, trumpeted violation of Dictator Newscum’s anti-Christian decrees. By chance, I was in position to attend his first service following that.

I begin with his announcement. The reader will quickly note it’s way too long. MacArthur could have said more with just ten words: “Separation of Church and State, bureaucrats! Now it’s our turn!” Or even just three words, “Non Serviam Tyrannis”.

A Biblical Case for the Church’s Duty to Remain Open

https://www.gracechurch.org/news/posts/1988

Christ is Lord of all. He is the one true head of the church (Ephesians 1:22; 5:23; Colossians 1:18). He is also King of kings—sovereign over every earthly authority (1 Timothy 6:15; Revelation 17:14; 19:16). Grace Community Church has always stood immovably on those biblical principles. As His people, we are subject to His will and commands as revealed in Scripture. Therefore we cannot and will not acquiesce to a government-imposed moratorium on our weekly congregational worship or other regular corporate gatherings. Compliance would be disobedience to our Lord’s clear commands.

Some will think such a firm statement is inexorably in conflict with the command to be subject to governing authorities laid out in Romans 13 and 1 Peter 2. Scripture does mandate careful, conscientious obedience to all governing authority, including kings, governors, employers, and their agents (in Peter’s words, “not only to those who are good and gentle, but also to those who are unreasonable” [1 Peter 2:18]).

Cuckservatives, please stop defeating your own arguments. The context here is not a lawful government, but a lawless one. Sacramento is in full frontal violation of all three of its sources of legitimacy: Christ Jesus, the U.S. Constitution and California’s taxpaying citizens.

Newsom & friends don’t care what our reasons are for disobeying them. They don’t care whether this is what Christ really teaches. They only care that despite their best efforts, we still exist.

Insofar as government authorities do not attempt to assert ecclesiastical authority or issue orders that forbid our obedience to God’s law, their authority is to be obeyed whether we agree with their rulings or not. In other words, Romans 13 and 1 Peter 2 still bind the consciences of individual Christians. We are to obey our civil authorities as powers that God Himself has ordained.

Stop. Defeating. Yourselves.

However, while civil government is invested with divine authority to rule the state, neither of those texts (nor any other) grants civic rulers jurisdiction over the church. God has established three institutions within human society: the family, the state, and the church. Each institution has a sphere of authority with jurisdictional limits that must be respected. A father’s authority is limited to his own family. Church leaders’ authority (which is delegated to them by Christ) is limited to church matters. And government is specifically tasked with the oversight and protection of civic peace and well-being within the boundaries of a nation or community. God has not granted civic rulers authority over the doctrine, practice, or polity of the church. The biblical framework limits the authority of each institution to its specific jurisdiction. The church does not have the right to meddle in the affairs of individual families and ignore parental authority. Parents do not have authority to manage civil matters while circumventing government officials. And similarly, government officials have no right to interfere in ecclesiastical matters in a way that undermines or disregards the God-given authority of pastors and elders.

Wordy wordy wordy. Like I already said, just say “Ha Ha, Separation of Church and State!” The boldfaced part made me suspect that MacArthur was going Catholic on me, objecting to the lockdowns only because they were undermining his ability to pass the offering basket. This seems to not have been the case, thankfully.

I will post the remainder for the sake of completeness and posterity. Feel free to skip to the end. I did.

When any one of the three institutions exceeds the bounds of its jurisdiction it is the duty of the other institutions to curtail that overreach. Therefore, when any government official issues orders regulating worship (such as bans on singing, caps on attendance, or prohibitions against gatherings and services), he steps outside the legitimate bounds of his God-ordained authority as a civic official and arrogates to himself authority that God expressly grants only to the Lord Jesus Christ as sovereign over His Kingdom, which is the church. His rule is mediated to local churches through those pastors and elders who teach His Word (Matthew 16:18–19; 2 Timothy 3:16–4:2).

Therefore, in response to the recent state order requiring churches in California to limit or suspend all meetings indefinitely, we, the pastors and elders of Grace Community Church, respectfully inform our civic leaders that they have exceeded their legitimate jurisdiction, and faithfulness to Christ prohibits us from observing the restrictions they want to impose on our corporate worship services.

Said another way, it has never been the prerogative of civil government to order, modify, forbid, or mandate worship. When, how, and how often the church worships is not subject to Caesar. Caesar himself is subject to God. Jesus affirmed that principle when He told Pilate, “You would have no authority over Me, unless it had been given you from above” (John 19:11). And because Christ is head of the church, ecclesiastical matters pertain to His Kingdom, not Caesar’s. Jesus drew a stark distinction between those two kingdoms when He said, “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s” (Mark 12:17). Our Lord Himself always rendered to Caesar what was Caesar’s, but He never offered to Caesar what belongs solely to God.

As pastors and elders, we cannot hand over to earthly authorities any privilege or power that belongs solely to Christ as head of His church. Pastors and elders are the ones to whom Christ has given the duty and the right to exercise His spiritual authority in the church (1 Peter 5:1–4; Hebrews 13:7, 17)—and Scripture alone defines how and whom they are to serve (1 Corinthians 4:1–4). They have no duty to follow orders from a civil government attempting to regulate the worship or governance of the church. In fact, pastors who cede their Christ-delegated authority in the church to a civil ruler have abdicated their responsibility before their Lord and violated the God-ordained spheres of authority as much as the secular official who illegitimately imposes his authority upon the church. Our church’s doctrinal statement has included this paragraph for more than 40 years:

We teach the autonomy of the local church, free from any external authority or control, with the right of self-government and freedom from the interference of any hierarchy of individuals or organizations (Titus 1:5). We teach that it is scriptural for true churches to cooperate with each other for the presentation and propagation of the faith. Each local church, however, through its elders and their interpretation and application of Scripture, should be the sole judge of the measure and method of its cooperation. The elders should determine all other matters of membership, policy, discipline, benevolence, and government as well (Acts 15:19–31; 20:28; 1 Corinthians 5:4–7, 13; 1 Peter 5:1–4).

In short, as the church, we do not need the state’s permission to serve and worship our Lord as He has commanded. The church is Christ’s precious bride (2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:23–27). She belongs to Him alone. She exists by His will and serves under His authority. He will tolerate no assault on her purity and no infringement of His headship over her. All of that was established when Jesus said, “I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it” (Matthew 16:18).

Christ’s own authority is “far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And [God the Father has] put all things in subjection under [Christ’s] feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all” (Ephesians 1:21–23).

Accordingly, the honor that we rightly owe our earthly governors and magistrates (Romans 13:7) does not include compliance when such officials attempt to subvert sound doctrine, corrupt biblical morality, exercise ecclesiastical authority, or supplant Christ as head of the church in any other way.

The biblical order is clear: Christ is Lord over Caesar, not vice versa. Christ, not Caesar, is head of the church. Conversely, the church does not in any sense rule the state. Again, these are distinct kingdoms, and Christ is sovereign over both. Neither church nor state has any higher authority than that of Christ Himself, who declared, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth” (Matthew 28:18).

Notice that we are not making a constitutional argument, even though the First Amendment of the United States Constitution expressly affirms this principle in its opening words: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” The right we are appealing to was not created by the Constitution. It is one of those unalienable rights granted solely by God, who ordained human government and establishes both the extent and the limitations of the state’s authority (Romans 13:1–7). Our argument therefore is purposely not grounded in the First Amendment; it is based on the same biblical principles that the Amendment itself is founded upon. The exercise of true religion is a divine duty given to men and women created in God’s image (Genesis 1:26–27; Acts 4:18–20; 5:29; cf. Matthew 22:16–22). In other words, freedom of worship is a command of God, not a privilege granted by the state.

An additional point needs to be made in this context. Christ is always faithful and true (Revelation 19:11). Human governments are not so trustworthy. Scripture says, “the whole world lies in the power of the evil one” (1 John 5:19). That refers, of course, to Satan. John 12:31 and 16:11 call him “the ruler of this world,” meaning he wields power and influence through this world’s political systems (cf. Luke 4:6; Ephesians 2:2; 6:12). Jesus said of him, “he is a liar and the father of lies” (John 8:44). History is full of painful reminders that government power is easily and frequently abused for evil purposes. Politicians may manipulate statistics and the media can cover up or camouflage inconvenient truths. So a discerning church cannot passively or automatically comply if the government orders a shutdown of congregational meetings—even if the reason given is a concern for public health and safety.

The church by definition is an assembly. That is the literal meaning of the Greek word for “church”—ekklesia—the assembly of the called-out ones. A non-assembling assembly is a contradiction in terms. Christians are therefore commanded not to forsake the practice of meeting together (Hebrews 10:25)—and no earthly state has a right to restrict, delimit, or forbid the assembling of believers. We have always supported the underground church in nations where Christian congregational worship is deemed illegal by the state.

When officials restrict church attendance to a certain number, they attempt to impose a restriction that in principle makes it impossible for the saints to gather as the church. When officials prohibit singing in worship services, they attempt to impose a restriction that in principle makes it impossible for the people of God to obey the commands of Ephesians 5:19 and Colossians 3:16. When officials mandate distancing, they attempt to impose a restriction that in principle makes it impossible to experience the close communion between believers that is commanded in Romans 16:16, 1 Corinthians 16:20, 2 Corinthians 13:12, and 1 Thessalonians 5:26. In all those spheres, we must submit to our Lord.

Although we in America may be unaccustomed to government intrusion into the church of our Lord Jesus Christ, this is by no means the first time in church history that Christians have had to deal with government overreach or hostile rulers. As a matter of fact, persecution of the church by government authorities has been the norm, not the exception, throughout church history. “Indeed,” Scripture says, “all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted” (2 Timothy 3:12). Historically, the two main persecutors have always been secular government and false religion. Most of Christianity’s martyrs have died because they refused to obey such authorities. This is, after all, what Christ promised: “If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you” (John 15:20). In the last of the beatitudes, He said, “Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you” (Matthew 5:11–12).

As government policy moves further away from biblical principles, and as legal and political pressures against the church intensify, we must recognize that the Lord may be using these pressures as means of purging to reveal the true church. Succumbing to governmental overreach may cause churches to remain closed indefinitely. How can the true church of Jesus Christ distinguish herself in such a hostile climate? There is only one way: bold allegiance to the Lord Jesus Christ.

Even where governments seem sympathetic to the church, Christian leaders have often needed to push back against aggressive state officials. In Calvin’s Geneva, for example, church officials at times needed to fend off attempts by the city council to govern aspects of worship, church polity, and church discipline. The Church of England has never fully reformed, precisely because the British Crown and Parliament have always meddled in church affairs. In 1662, the Puritans were ejected from their pulpits because they refused to bow to government mandates regarding use of the Book of Common Prayer, the wearing of vestments, and other ceremonial aspects of state-regulated worship. The British Monarch still claims to be the supreme governor and titular head of the Anglican Church.

But again: Christ is the one true head of His church, and we intend to honor that vital truth in all our gatherings. For that preeminent reason, we cannot accept and will not bow to the intrusive restrictions government officials now want to impose on our congregation. We offer this response without rancor, and not out of hearts that are combative or rebellious (1 Timothy 2:1–8; 1 Peter 2:13–17), but with a sobering awareness that we must answer to the Lord Jesus for the stewardship He has given to us as shepherds of His precious flock.

To government officials, we respectfully say with the apostles, “Whether it is right in the sight of God to give heed to you rather than to God, you be the judge” (Acts 4:19). And our unhesitating reply to that question is the same as the apostles’: “We must obey God rather than men” (Acts 5:29).

Our prayer is that every faithful congregation will stand with us in obedience to our Lord as Christians have done through the centuries.

Stop talking. Please stop talking. I’m begging you.

Addendum

The elders of Grace Church considered and independently consented to the original government order, not because we believed the state has a right to tell churches when, whether, or how to worship. To be clear, we believe that the original orders were just as much an illegitimate intrusion of state authority into ecclesiastical matters as we believe it is now. However, because we could not possibly have known the true severity of the virus, and because we care about people as our Lord did, we believe guarding public health against serious contagions is a rightful function of Christians as well as civil government. Therefore, we voluntarily followed the initial recommendations of our government. It is, of course, legitimate for Christians to abstain from the assembly of saints temporarily in the face of illness or an imminent threat to public health.

When the devastating lockdown began, it was supposed to be a short-term stopgap measure, with the goal to “flatten the curve”—meaning they wanted to slow the rate of infection to ensure that hospitals weren’t overwhelmed. And there were horrific projections of death. In light of those factors, our pastors supported the measures by observing the guidelines that were issued for churches.

But we did not yield our spiritual authority to the secular government. We said from the very start that our voluntary compliance was subject to change if the restrictions dragged on beyond the stated goal, or politicians unduly intruded into church affairs, or if health officials added restrictions that would attempt to undermine the church’s mission. We made every decision with our own burden of responsibility in mind. We simply took the early opportunity to support the concerns of health officials and accommodate the same concerns among our church members, out of a desire to act in an abundance of care and reasonableness (Philippians 4:5).

But we are now more than twenty weeks into the unrelieved restrictions. It is apparent that those original projections of death were wrong and the virus is nowhere near as dangerous as originally feared. Still, roughly forty percent of the year has passed with our church essentially unable to gather in a normal way. Pastors’ ability to shepherd their flocks has been severely curtailed. The unity and influence of the church has been threatened. Opportunities for believers to serve and minister to one another have been missed. And the suffering of Christians who are troubled, fearful, distressed, infirm, or otherwise in urgent need of fellowship and encouragement has been magnified beyond anything that could reasonably be considered just or necessary.

Major public events that were planned for 2021 are already being canceled, signaling that officials are preparing to keep restrictions in place into next year and beyond. That forces churches to choose between the clear command of our Lord and the government officials. Therefore, following the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ, we gladly choose to obey Him.

Stand with us in support of the biblical mandate to gather for corporate worship. [Signatures accepted below]

Whew! So, I liked the sentiment but had a nasty suspicion that “nobly defying the governor in the name of Christ” would look like a big tent set up in the parking lot, masks and social distancing mandatory, with a worship team Skyping in from their Ivory Tower of Safety and the passing of oil-barrel-sized tithe buckets.

My workload had dropped off enough that I had just gone up to Los Angeles for an extended weekend with family when I read this. Why harbor poisonous suspicions? Why not go and see Mac’s resolve for myself? So, I did.

Walking onto the campus, I noticed neither Blantifa nor LAPD. Security was present, as were signs prohibiting photography… something that should definitely become a “new normal” for politically sensitive events because most amateur journalists are only one “hoodies up” from throwing bricks themselves.

Foot traffic was diverted to a large tent set up in the parking lot and the auditorium was closed. Uh-oh. But people weren’t wearing masks and weren’t social distancing, either. I mean 95% were not wearing masks. This in a city whose businesses are 100.0% lockstep goosemarching for Fauci.

It looked… like a normal church Sunday. It’s been so long since I’ve seen one.

The speaker talked about the redefinition of beauty as something that points one to God. I understood what he was trying to communicate but this kind of wordplay is exactly what Churchians resort to when they want to duck urgent matters of leadership. No worship music.

Oh, wait! After he finished, the auditorium opened up for seating. The tent thing had only been the Sunday School class. (Did I mention that Grace Community is a megachurch? Three hundred people for a single Bible class is not unknown here.)

Inside was awesome. No social distancing. A couple people wore masks, mostly the elderly who are the ones needing special measures to avoid COVID, and there was outdoor seating for anybody wanting to six-foot their neighbor. The auditorium was mostly full despite short notice and any COVID worries. There were hymnals and Bibles in the pews like I haven’t seen for twenty years.

We sang a few hymns. Live instruments, us congregants standing next to each other, screw you Newscum! This church is OPEN!!!

MacArthur got a standing ovation when he took the pulpit. I must not have been the only Christian peeved about the lockdowns.

His choice for Scripture reading was Daniel 6, which if you look it up was as subtle as a Trigglypuff’s belch in the direction of California’s dishonest-law-making weasels. Now this was the sort of sermon I’d been hoping for! Not an hour of “beauty isn’t about being pretty”.

One point MacArthur made is that this world is not going to understand our devotion to Christ. It’s true but rather besides the point at this stage in the game, not to mention it doesn’t explain MacArthur’s 2,810-word explanation of why he was telling the Christ-haters to go gag themselves.

All in all, it was a normal Sunday service, the kind we used to have before pastors everywhere took a knee to welcome the Red Dawn, and I had wondered if such a day would ever come again. It brought a tear to my eye that one finally did!

On my way out, across the street was a kiosk taking names for a “Recall Newsom” petition. I’d already signed for this year and think late July is probably too late for November 2020, but seeing that put the cherry on my Sunday.

Sweet!

 

29 thoughts on “I Went To John MacArthur’s Church

  1. Enjoyed. Happy that this experience at Mac’s was better than that from your younger years. Good to see ol’ Mac actually correcting a previous error.. he has perhaps become more fearless with his very advancing age? I am reminded about his Beth Slore comment to ‘go home’. His celebrity surely does not hurt either.

    Here on the East Coast in Occupied Amerika, my usual jaunt’s lead deacon made an announcement that for the ‘safety and comfort of others’ everyone should be wearing a mask within the building. I am the only individual in the 22-50 year old category, and also the only one to whom the announcement was directed. Connecting those dots should be obvious.

    Upon the sermon’s conclusion, the pastor offered prayer for our brothers in CA who face ‘difficult decisions’ and recalled how we ‘were forced to shut down’ recently and would be remiss to ‘have to shut down again’.

    I attend because corporate worship is a necessary for me, however painful it be. But tonight was the first time I gave thought to picking up and beginning the search anew for a salty pastorate somewhere. (Every Christian worth their salt- see what I did there?- knows how this search would conclude.)

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  2. The church is the gathering of believers, 2-3. Not a multi million operation that pays the MacArthur family millions each year (he is nepotistic), and who insulates their pope from criticism.

    MacArthur has made wacky claims about blood atonement.

    He has said one can take the mark of the beast and still be saved, directly contradicting an incredibly passage in revelation.

    He made the Dallas statement and then refused to enforce it or call out his friends who opposed it, even though he said their views were heretical.

    What’s funny is when the blue lives matter mess first started, he was all about submitting to the state.

    Now he won’t. Has to get those church donations.

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  3. MacArthur called out Beth Moore, and attacks people like Joel osteen. Very easy targets. MacArthur has never called out a person that would lead to MacArthur losing a portion of his own audience.

    He is a coward. He isn’t getting braver with age.

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  4. “The boldfaced part made me suspect that MacArthur was going Catholic on me…”

    I recommend looking into the “new calvinist” movement. Mac is in it. It’s an SBC Botchery of traditional reformed theology.

    Specifically, nearly every person in this movement has a weird interpretation of justification and sanctification that leads them to confusing the two. The result is works based righteousness, which is Roman Catholic.

    the gospel coalition was set up to be the organization that pushed it. They were able to get two influential Presbyterians- sproul and Keller, to cozy up to them, and thus helped screw up the presby world.

    Dr ES Williams (who attends London tabernacle, has written several books on figures linked to the movement, and his YouTube page is “thenewCalvinist”.

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  5. And I am saying this as someone who used to attend a church staffed by TMS people, with very very deep ties to MacArthur personally. They act like Scientologists

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  6. It’s too late. The damage has already been done. MacArthur’s previous cowardice and capitulation sent a loud and clear message of what position the corporate church takes vis a vis the State, which is that the church in America is an outgrowth of the State that derives any rights to operate that it has from the State’s benevolent tolerance. It’s akin to the belief that the State confers rights rather than preserves and upholds God-given ones.

    A cynic would say that MacArthur decided to force the doors open again because protracted closure has led to cobwebs in the collection plates, but I beg to differ. I believe he has been mercilessly shamed and mocked from many quarters, and justifiably so, for his spinelessness and lack of faith. He has just finally realized that his reputation as a leader among “evangelicals,” whether he wants it or not, is real and that if the church is to have any chance whatsoever of redeeming itself in the wake of its disgraceful behavior, it is up to him to set the example. Unfortunately, his lack of humility and genuine repentance is just digging his and the corporate church’s grave even deeper.

    The day of the megachurch as a gathering of believers, if it ever truly existed as such in the first place, is unquestionably done. The trials facing the church in these end times have barely even begun, and if MacArthur’s behavior thus far is indicative of how it will react to persecution, then it’s effectively game over. The REAL church from here on out will be found meeting in living rooms, basements, and other humble venues, heedless of the diktats of political tyrants. MacArthur should either join one or officially do what he has effectively already done in practice: take the ticket and retire.

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  7. John MacArthurs son and board member of his ministry was charged with defrauding investors of 16 million.

    Typical megachurchian con artists. Enough to lump MacArthur in with the likes of Bakker, Swaggart, Creflo Dollar, and all the rest of them.

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  8. They all come from the evangelical baptist world, which is why he spends effort attacking those types rather than addressing error in his new camp.

    His enemies are bogeyman – none of his fans would ever listen to them, vice versa.

    He is king of strawmen. Instead of addressing biblical issues related to the gifts in his strange fire conference, he used obvious charlatans as straw men so he could prove his position correct. “You are wrong, therefor I am right” is not a biblical argument.

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  9. “I am the only individual in the 22-50 year old category, and also the only one to whom the announcement was directed.”

    You aren’t the first dissident to be singled out in a public organization that’s contacted me, ikr. I can’t say more but the increase in persecution is real.

    One thing about the mask-wearing is that it’s an incredibly visible indicator of conformity. Far more than a vaccine would be.

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  10. I don’t follow the personsl sniping against MacArthur here. Doesn’t change what he wrote and that almost no other pastor has pushed back like that. And because of it, he has pro-mask Christians hoping they have an outbreak, and Lexet digging up personal attacks. Horrid that his son perpetrated fraud. His Charismatic Chaos was useful in its impact.
    My pastor wrings his hands trying to make sure no point of view is offended, and has displayed no confidence or boldness, so I appreciate the late effort here. I hope it encourages other pastors more suitable to Lexet to take arms, because we need all hands on deck.

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  11. Thank you Gunner for your report. I was talking about it this morning with other believers. One mentioned the power being cut as an option CA may pursue. Another guy told him he reads too much news, and even if the mask mandate is for evil purposes, we are supposed to submit to it anyhow.

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  12. “One mentioned the power being cut as an option CA may pursue.”

    That threat was Los Angeles-specific but yes, it’s a possibility. Also the water service. But here’s the funny part of that “threat” for us locals: earthquakes mean every business in Los Angeles should already be prepared to go without water & power at a moment’s notice, at least for a few days. If Mayor Garcetti uses that option on an organization as wealthy as Grace Church then GCC can only blame itself if they’re so much as inconvenienced.

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  13. The notion a vaccine will work is an assumption.

    The notion two people wearing masks will work is statistically proven to work to slow the spread. Rapid spreading of the virus is happening in areas where people refuse to wear masks.

    Masks are the most reasonable, prudent, and cost effective measure.

    The fact that Americans, especially conservatives and libertarians, have rejected the prudent route shows that they don’t understand the basic principles of their beliefs, and are incapable of governing others, as they can’t govern themselves.

    It’s truly sad to see the right break down into cultists over this, and become unreasonable children.

    They are literally echoing cnn’s talking points from February, showing their cognitive dissonance.

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  14. Digging up personal attacks? An elder of the church is to be held to a high standard. MacArthur can not survive basic scrutiny into his ministry.

    It’s so he can have massive salaries
    It’s nepotistic.
    He lets his family control a church related ministry, instead of letting scripture guide it

    He controls his personal university and church with an iron fist.

    You are commanded to call out inappropriate behavior in the church. Elders are commanded to rebuke other elders. Elders are commanded to be thrown out of the church for doing evil.

    These “personal attacks” are highlighting the fruit of Johns false ministry.

    He is an apostate charlatan no different than money changers and Pharisees of the Jewish times.

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  15. I’d rather the state let them continue, so the church can be made to look like complete and utter fools. That way, people will start to see MacArthur for what he is

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  16. “The notion two people wearing masks will work is statistically proven to work to slow the spread. Rapid spreading of the virus is happening in areas where people refuse to wear masks.”

    I don’t know how many times I have to explain science to people who don’t get it. Science has not proven anything. It has to weigh the evidence for and against various hypotheses before it can draw one or more (tentative) theories. Assertions of proof are political propaganda. Look in a mirror.

    We all know by now that Dr. Fauci—acknowledging the scientific literature—told everyone that masks should not be worn by everyone and that they mostly served as psychological manipulations. On May 2020, the CDC published this…

    “Although mechanistic studies support the potential effect of hand hygiene or face masks, evidence from 14 randomized controlled trials of these measures did not support a substantial effect on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza. We similarly found limited evidence on the effectiveness of improved hygiene and environmental cleaning. We identified several major knowledge gaps requiring further research, most fundamentally an improved characterization of the modes of person-to-person transmission.”

    …indicating that there is hardly any strong evidence to support the hypothesis—let alone proof of a theory—especially outside of medical facilities and/or bacterial infections.

    Believing that masks are effective is prioritizing anecdotal and circumstantial evidence (the weakest kinds) over the strongest kinds of evidence (randomly controlled trials). In addition it suffers from cherry-picking data and assuming correlation always means causation. In sum, it is ignorant of both mathematics/statistics and science. The best science we have shows that masks are ineffective.

    In science, we see a healthy debate. Denis G. Rancourt published a detailed piece explaining why masks don’t work, and he had a debate with David K. Johnson on the subject. Greenhalgh et al. and Graham P. Martin debated whether masks would protect others (pretty much assuming that masks don’t protect the wearer!).

    IMO, The strongest case for mask wearing is that it may protect others if the wearer is actively showing symptoms (i.e. coughing and sneezing) and the exposure is long enough and intense enough, but there is no hard proof that this is the case and there exists competing evidence to the contrary. In other words, the old advice that you should sneeze/cough into your shoulder or a handkerchief/tissue has comparable effectiveness to wearing a mask. Combined with frequent mask/face touching, the two are probably very similarly effective in a limited, but positive, sense.

    The idea that mask policy has no potential downsides is flatly wrong. I wonder how many elderly have died because they let their guard down and left quarantine because they thought masks would protect them?

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  17. Derek Ramsey
    JULY 28, 2020 AT 5:31 AM

    The COVID-19 phenomenon is arguably the first completely AND DELIBERATELY politicized “pandemic” [sic] in history (AIDS doesn’t count because it only affected a relatively small subset of the population). The behavior of governments and increasingly politicized medical establishments worldwide is making it clear that the intent from the very beginning has been to confuse and mislead the public by issuing erroneous and contradictory information to the point where no one can make informed decisions.

    The COVID-19 “plandemic” is the ultimate PSY-OP, one that has succeeded beyond TPTB’s greatest expectations. There will never be an end to it because it is not in TPTB’s interests to let it end. The stream of disinformation will continue as the most effective means of keeping the ignorant, fear-driven masses under control.

    Liked by 2 people

  18. Lexet, “so that the church be made to look like complete and utter fools…”

    Pretty strong desire. I know another agent who wants the same thing. With you, I am not sure whether your desire is for the church in the world, or just the GCC members. Maybe both.

    But you want it so that JM is exposed. So your desire is okay?
    I’m having a hard time seeing the maturity in your way. Couldn’t you pray for JMs repentance and urge some heretical or ignorant fool like Gunner to not go there again? At least if you direct your ire to him directly, you may have more impact than your generalized outburst.

    You speak as if you are neither Christian or willing to vote. So why shouldn’t you be addressed as a troll? If your concern is apostasy, then why should we assume you actually want to spread the gospel without you ever providing evidence that your love of Christ is why you want to see a church, or the Church, destroyed?

    Your mask screed is ridiculous and Derek’s words will fall to the ground wasted.
    Derek and Gunner, why is it so uniform that pro-State maskers are utterly dismissive of disagreement? Derek, you bring up facts and both sides, Lexet says believers are iidiots and there is nothing to discuss. That is, you are human and wear a mask, or your ignorance and selfishness is so great that you are deserving of destruction. Am I the only one seeing this difference?

    Liked by 2 people

  19. “Why is it so uniform that pro-State maskers are utterly dismissive of disagreement?”

    The Dunning-Kruger effect? The more I learn, the more that I know that I don’t know. By contrast, the incompetent are identified by their absolute confidence that they are competent and their positive assertions are correct. Now, it is orders of magnitude easier to disprove a claim than it is to prove it conclusively. Domain expertise is often not required for the former, but often insufficient for the latter. But the Dunning-Kruger effect inverts this: hardcore beliefs require little (if any) evidence while replacing those beliefs requires an astronomical burden of proof.

    But what about pro-State maskers? The State is Bureaucracy: rule following, group ‘leadership’ and authority, anti-individuality, control, enforced uniformity, and a utilitarian ethic and morality that opposes truth. Everyone knows this (but most are okay with it). For example, when a bureaucrat is doing something because a checkbox has to be checked or a procedure/law has to be followed, and the outcome of doing that is objectively worse than not doing it (or doing something else)… they do it anyway. They put the Bureaucracy over the right and truth. It is anti-Christian.

    If you worship the State, you can’t worship Christ. You can’t serve two masters. Pro-State maskers don’t care about whether masks actually save lives. They don’t care about potential collateral damage. Sure, masks may possibly be effective and save some lives, but, all that really matters is that the State said masks were good. They care most that everyone follows the State’s rules and procedures, even, ironically, through lethal force. Those who want the State to force masking approve of godless bureaucracy. Such a one demonstrates by that action (and utterly dismissing disagreement) that they do not value truth as a primary value, a hallmark of Dunning-Kruger.

    For all its faults, GCC is correct that the State is under the jurisdiction of God, not the other way around. Pro-State maskers give the game away when they side with the State over the Church.

    Liked by 1 person

  20. “Derek and Gunner, why is it so uniform that pro-State maskers are utterly dismissive of disagreement?”

    Shrug, I’m getting there myself these days. Holding an unapproved belief in a liberal stronghold, particularly one that manifests openly such as refusing to wear a mask, requires firm conviction. But I don’t care whether an NPC dresses himself like a faceless drone whereas he thinks I’m not just a dissident; I’m a disease vector and therefore somebody who should be hated.

    I’ve no problem with Lexet’s suspicions of MacArthur. It’s unusual for somebody who’s done wrong for many years to sincerely turn around and do the right thing. That being said, if it looks like he’s doing the right thing then I respect it because God gives me second chances, too.

    Liked by 1 person

  21. The non aggression principle (NAP), which is highly coveted by libertarians.

    Except when discussing issues related to Covid.

    My problem with the Right right now is their cognitive dissonance and abandonment of reason and prudence.

    Rather than ask: “is it wise, or prudent for me to possibly infect others because of my own selfishness,” the knee jerk reaction of the right wing is

    “F every other person in America. So what if I get sick, spread it to others, and they die. It’s my right!”

    That is the mindset and practice of Fox News and MAGA tards.

    It’s very sad.

    Like

  22. I have referred to Fauci as dr Faust this entire time for becoming part of the clown show, and for contradicting himself left and right.

    It seemed that the fame got to his head, and the administration was more than happy to have someone else be the person on point.

    Like

  23. “Pro-State maskers don’t care about whether masks actually save lives. They don’t care about potential collateral damage”

    Partially true and I agree. *. The question is what is the most prudent route to take until we have more information?

    As it relates to the church, here is an observation:

    MacArthur, Johnson, and new Calvinism are all staunchly against home churches.

    If they are the voice for the church, why do they not advocate for gatherings of 2-3 people, smaller gatherings, etc.?

    Who gives them the right to redefine the “church” as those who come in person to a public facility, run by a corporation, that follows one man, according to a church service that has nothing in common with how the churches were instructed to meet according to the NT? (Plurality of elders, asking questions after teaching, forum being opened to public participation, communion on a regular basis)

    Liked by 1 person

  24. See a few of my recent replies to posts above- hope that clarifies my position.

    As per your last comment, I hold you to a different standard than a self proclaimed elder who has influence far beyond his own congregation. And when elders are in the position to change course, it has to come from humble repentance.

    I haven’t ever seen a celebrity pastor admit they were wrong, step down, and let someone else take over their church.

    Liked by 1 person

  25. 1 Timothy 3:2 2 A bishop then must be blameless…
    4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

    Pointing out that Mr. MacArthur has taught his own son to be a fraud, is fair game, and concerning.

    I heard Mr. MacArthur on the radio a few days ago claiming that in heaven, we the redeemed will recognize others, yet have no recollection of our sins or our past. I had never heard of such a belief before, but he really was firm and dogmatic about it being impossible that we could recollect our sins or our past life. I think Mr. MacArthur gets a lot of things right, but, heaven being a kingdom founded on ignorance, is wrong.
    Matthew 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

    Clearly they remember their past life.
    1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.

    God’s kingdom is not built on ignorance, but on knowing the truth.

    “…why is it so uniform that pro-State maskers are utterly dismissive of disagreement?”
    Because it is Satan’s delight, after the “greatest generation” and Boomers in churches have refused for many decades to wear the head coverings God requested to veil the faces of women,(1 Corinthians 11:4-10) to taunt God by making God watch how they will all worth-ship the prince of this world and cover their faces at his command. Men will mask or muzzle the very image of God at the request of the world, but this wicked generation wouldn’t ever previously veil their women, even at God’s request. It is a contemptuous display orchestrated to mock God most high, by demonstrating how great the infidelity of the whore which has called itself Christ’s church/bride. The only way it could get more satanic is if next time, only the men are asked to cover their faces. Watch for it …

    Liked by 1 person

  26. Pingback: Garcetti’s Got Nothing | Gunner Q

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