A reader KAK was kind enough to comment on my post about the post-New Zealand Mosque Shooting’s gun banning efforts and the locals’ noncooperation from a local’s perspective. The reason.com article that was the basis of my post appears to have been flawed. She also picked up on my ignorance of NZ culture. It’s true but while reviewing the material she provided, I was struck by how NOT ignorant I actually was. What’s happening in NZ has many parallels with what’s happening in USA.
First is two corrective articles concerning the ban, then I’ll fisk her response for cultural comparison.
US ‘fake news’ hits NZ gun buyback efforts
By Mark Daadler, 25 July 2019
On July 8, American Military News ran a piece in its ‘Controversy’ section entitled “Less than 1 percent participate in New Zealand gun buyback”. The article used the same flawed logic as Guns America and was shared more than 7000 times, including by a major Canadian gun lobby group.
(After being notified by Newsroom about omissions in its article, American Military News significantly updated the piece. In an email, editor Laura Widener insisted: “It was not our intent, nor is it ever our intent to intentionally mislead people.”
To explain the error, Widener said, “New Zealand’s data on guns is obscure and even difficult for experts to estimate, as I assume you’ve also noticed in your research. We believe all estimates and solid data on the issue should be discussed in the effort of full disclosure.”)
The update seems to have only involved stripping out the statistics. Quotes from NZ organized resistance to the banning remain. Here’s the link but I won’t get into it:
The Canadian Coalition for Firearm Rights shared the AMN article on both its Facebook and Twitter pages, leading to dozens of angry comments and more than 100 extra shares.
The greatest coup, however, came later on the same day when Reason, the US conservative magazine with a circulation of 50,000, ran an article stating: “Noncompliance Kneecaps New Zealand’s Gun Control Scheme.” While Reason avoided citing the misleading 1 percent figure, it still failed to note that the buyback had yet to actually begin at the time of writing, which would contextualise any claim about non-compliance.
That was the article I linked to. Seems the gun ban doesn’t take effect until Dec. 20 and the buybacks are a preliminary measure. In America, first the guns are banned then buyback-style programs are offered as a form of amnesty. This could explain the original assumption of mass noncompliance.
The entire saga has led to a complete misunderstanding of New Zealand’s gun culture and gun buyback among international firearm enthusiasts.
Gun rights activists enthusiastically congratulated Kiwi gun owners for their “strong resistance” and for “refusing to turn over their firearms to the government”. At the same time, others characterised the nascent buyback effort as a failure and used this characterisation to inform their own policy views.
[Dr Catherine Strong, a senior journalism lecturer at Massey University who studies social media and fake news] believed that was the goal of the articles – to portray New Zealand’s gun reform efforts as a fiasco. “They want it to look like it was a failure. This is going to really ramp up.”
Another alcoholic feminist. No, “Lecturer of Social Media”, it was not a vast, right-wing conspiracy. We were wishing you Kiwis the best, wanting to believe that you were resisting gov’t tyranny. Now that we’ve learned you’re largely cooperating with your own disarmament, arguing only over the reimbursement price of your enslavement, American respect for our NZ cousins will be… reduced.
She also thought gun lobby groups could well be behind the articles, saying they were known for spreading fake news.
According to Strong, political groups like the United States’ National Rifle Association use New Zealand “as a patsy”.
“They can say a lot of things about New Zealand because there’s no way of really proving or disproving it.”
According to Gun Control NZ, the buyback has been far from a failure.
Between Strong and now Gun Control, this is obviously a leftward-slanted piece even by journalism standards. Although the original reporting was indeed flawed.
“The early signs are pretty positive,” said co-founder Nik Green. “The feedback we’ve had is that people feel pretty good about the prices” the Government is paying out for now-prohibited weapons.
Even David Tipple, the outspoken CEO of Gun City, believes the buyback – or, as he terms it, the “seizure” – is proceeding well.
“Police expect that the rate of seizure will increase following positive reports of those who have surrendered their guns and received prompt payment,” he said, adding that once gun retailers were able to receive the guns in lieu of the police, it would be “more palatable” for owners.
The police agree. “Following the first successful collection events in Christchurch last weekend, Police is very pleased by the reaction from Canterbury firearms owners,” a NZ Police spokesperson said.
Police declined to comment on the articles being shared overseas.
Gun buyback working because ‘people just want to do the right thing’ – police
By Heather McCarron, 21 July 2019
Please, God, they can’t possibly be that stupid.
Police hope firearm owners who have had a positive experience with the buyback scheme will spread the word to others.
Seven-hundred people attended collection events throughout the country on Saturday, and more than 1000 firearms were handed in. More than $1.7 million was compensated to owners.
Southern District Commander Paul Basham was pleased with the steady turnout in Dunedin, deeming it a success.
“The systems have worked. I think people overall have interacted really well with us, and been broadly happy with the outcome – particularly in terms of some of the price points that have been offered for the weapons.”
Collection events were held in Te Aroha, Ohope, Hastings, Palmerston North, Upper Hutt, Hokitika, Rolleston and Dunedin. Well over 2000 parts and accessories were also handed in on Saturday nationwide.
Basham was pleased to see more than 100 people turn out in his patch, despite many having a “sentimental attachment” to their weapons.
“Overwhelmingly, people just want to do the right thing.”
“As word gets out it is a positive experience in terms of the engagement with us… and the compensation that’s being offered by way of the schedule, hopefully that will have a positive impact.”
Whew, it wasn’t an actual quote from the people being disarmed. This isn’t going to end well in New Zealand any more than it has ended anywhere else. Disarmament is always, ALWAYS the first step of enslavement. But that’s no excuse for the targets to be cheerful about it.
Now we get to KAK’s comment about the culture of New Zealand vis a vis America. My blogging philosophy is that mistakes are an essential part of the learning process. Thus, I would rather be wrong than silent, and when criticism comes from a more knowledgeable source I should review it very carefully to refine my beliefs. Hence my fisking. It was insightful for how similar our cultures are. Totalitarian Communism appears to unify disparate cultures as effectively as McDonalds or Microsoft.
(Christianity has not been effective at unifying cultures. As if God is pleased with a diversity of human races and cultures rather than insisting on shoehorning us into a universal mold. It never fails to amuse that the Tolerance in Diversity bunch are the ones lusting for uniformity to the extent of gender-neutering. But I digress.)
I’m not sure whether to be impressed that you’re writing about my country without understanding the culture here, or absolutely disgusted that you’re writing about my country without trying to gain even a basic understanding of the culture here.
I’m so mean!
Here, we don’t have guns to protect ourselves. It’s not even legal to use guns in self-defence. We’re not allowed to carry them in public, unless we’re in the bush hunting. Guns and ammunition have to be locked away at all times, separately.
None of this is much different from my California.
Farmers and hunters are the main gun-owners here. We don’t have a big “gun culture” like the US does. Even our Police are unarmed – except for the days immediately after the shooting when they carried guns – but it’s gone back to normal now.
The vast majority of New Zealanders are in full support of the ban on semi-automatic weapons. Those that don’t, are mostly upset that the buy-back is a set amount, no matter the price of the original gun, and the cost of modifications since. Many gun owners will lose money. We’re also pretty annoyed that the Police, who are in charge of this gun buy-back scheme, have allowed so many of these guns to be stolen from the Police Stations, after law-abiding gun-owners have handed their guns in. These guns are now in the hands of criminals. The gun owners kept the guns safely locked away, and used them responsibly, but the Police didn’t. THAT is why many of us here are upset.
HAHAHA!!! “Turn your guns in, we don’t trust you with guns anymore, oops we lost them.” And you people STILL cooperate with this gun ban? STILL?!
Hunting is huge here – but we don’t have any squirrels (you knew that, right?)
Heli-hunting, particularly, is very popular with tourists. The locals just get out in the bush and do it – deer and pigs, mostly. But tahr up in the Southern Alps and the odd chamois. Ducks, in season. And rabbits, of course. All country kids cut their teeth on shooting rabbits with a slug gun. But nothing that a semi-automatic weapon is needed for.
A classic mistake, that the gun banners will stop with only “military assault” guns. Trust a Californian on that.
If you knew anything about the history of NZ you would be impressed by the fighting ability of the Maori. They were warriors. Fighting had to be put on hold while the English brought in more soldiers, even though they had far superior weapons. And the atrocities done to the Maori by the English are absolutely abhorrent. Sometimes, I’m actually ashamed that my ancestors were one of “those”. Also, if you knew anything about my country, you would know that our government is still trying to right the wrongs done way back then, with breaches of the Treaty of Waitangi and land theft.
If you knew about America, you would be impressed by the fighting ability of the American Indians. We certainly were, enough that our counties, streets and sports teams are still named after them out of respect. Except where the Communists decided our doing so was “hateful”, when the historical truth was “respectful”.
Despite that respect, they were cavemen living a lifestyle so primitive that coexistence was impossible. They should have been grateful to be conquered by us because we gave them a gold-plated opportunity to be part of the greatest nation in human history. They chose instead to be ingrates, many of them to this very day.
Why are you ashamed of what happened a century or two ago? That was not your fault and their descendants deserve nothing today on account of it. The Maori should count themselves lucky to be conquered by the British instead of the Chinese or Japanese. So what if there were a couple atrocities involved? Millions of people from incompatible cultures encountering each other over decades, how could that possibly have been handled flawlessly?
Heck, the British Empire committed atrocities against us Colonial Americans. We overlooked that (and the War of 1812) to become close allies for many years.
Sonny Fatu is right. Gangs here are really only violent with rival gangs. Mongrel Mob members regularly come into the shop that my husband and I own; we deal with them on a weekly basis. They are always friendly, polite. Even as a female, in the shop alone, I have never felt unsafe with them. They are just part of the community. The only people who have anything to fear from them, are rival gangs, at specific times. The Mongrel Mob, especially, are anti-establishment. Not anti-white people.
That is good to hear. They’ll be protecting you from your own government in a few years, seeing as they wisely refuse to disarm. Although Fatu’s tolerance of Islam is a bad sign.
Also, at no time were the Mongrel Mob members criticized for ‘supporting Islam’ as you seem to think. I’m really not sure where you’re getting your information from, but it’s not correct.
From the other article I linked to in that post. That was a quote from it.
Mongrel Mob members did provide security outside the mosques, and did their best to make the Muslim worshipers feel safe as they congregated to pray. They performed haka’s outside, as a gesture of respect. Many, many people of NZ, of all nationalities and cultures, united in their grief and solidarity, sung songs, left flowers, prayed, outside the mosques as a gesture of support. It wasn’t just gangs that did this. My children’s schools (in fact, most schools around the country) put on various assemblies to show support for the mosque victims. Many of us, all over the country, drove Muslim women to the supermarkets etc. in the weeks after the shooting and escorted them wherever they wanted to go, because they felt unsafe.
That was stupid of your people. Once the Muslims reach critical mass, you will convert or die. Islam does not even have the concept of “civilian”.
You get more of what you subsidize, both financially and culturally. My fellow white Americans, especially the older ones, suffer white guilt the same as your whites apparently do. It is proving to be the death of my country. I fear it will be the death of yours, too.
This is New Zealand. Nobody should live in fear in NZ. We all did what we could, to help make all NZers feel safe again. Muslims are part of our community here, and we were united in showing them that they are welcome here, and should feel free to practice their religion without fear. Freedom of religion is one of the backbones of my country.
That sentiment has been revealed in America to be a genocidal fever. The illegal immigrants, the militant Muslims, even the women who murder their own children must all be accommodated to “feel safe again”. All the enemies of America must be welcomed until there’s no place left for actual Americans.
Whatever. You’re female. You won’t heed my complaints about care-based morality.
But this is what was criticized – that gangs (criminals – because to be a Mobster you have to have done time in jail) who wear patches specifically to intimidate people, were acting as protection officers instead of letting the Police do their job. It was a well-meant gesture, but the NZ public found it offensive that criminal organisations were trying to be heroes.
That’s a point of cultural difference between us. America has never lacked for underdogs & antiheroes.
My original thought was that the gangs and Muslims were cooperating to traffic methamphetamine, which the Mongrel Mob has been long associated with per Wikipedia, and police were unwittingly protecting their warehouses. It would have been ironic if Tarrant had walked inside a mosque building to kill innocents and accidentally caused an explosion in a meth lab. I’m still not sure that I’m wrong, but if your society is generally that altruistic then I probably am.
You have to remember, that for a country as small as ours, this was a pretty big event. On a per-capita scale, this shooting for NZ was as big as 9/11 was for America. Adjusted for population size, the same number of people were affected, roughly. We were ALL shocked. And all of us, no matter our backgrounds, banded together to say “this is not who we are. This is not us.” We did it in different ways, but our message was the same. It’s really sad that you can’t see that.
About 9/11. It was indeed a powerful unifying event in America but it fell apart when our government retaliated against neutral Iraq instead of guilty Saudi Arabia. Most of the hijackers were Saudis, all of them practiced Wahabbi Islam funded by the Saudi government, Osama bin Laden himself was Saudi royalty, but we went after Saddam Hussein instead… the secular government keeping Saudi Arabia and Iran separated. It’s like we punished them by building them a caliphate.
Today, we’re watching your NZ unite against socialist white nationalism… and you socialist government is now using the opportunity to disarm you, you who obviously had nothing to do with the Mosque Shooting, EXACTLY AS BRENTON TARRANT HAD HOPED IT WOULD.
The parallel is obvious. Like us, your government is seizing the opportunity to force something unrelated upon you that you would never have agreed to beforehand.
Unfortunately, Sonny Fatu is right that racism is deeply entrenched in this country. Maori make up 14% of the population, yet they account for more than 50% of the prison population.
Heh, in ‘Murica we call them blacks. News flash, some races are more prone to lawless violence than other races. Yes, it’s racism to believe that, and that’s why every reasonable person on the planet is a racist. Because REALITY, baby.
We don’t have to look very hard to see that if a paheka commits the exact same crime, 9/10 they won’t go to jail, but the Maori will.
That might be a result of so many Maori having prior convictions. Per your own statistic just now.
Crime is not society’s fault.
If we look at the statistics of Oranga Tamariki (our child welfare agency) and the uplifting of babies, the vast majority of them are Maori. It is frightening. We are working hard to rectify it, but it is going to take a long time. When the gang leaders talk about entrenched racism, they’re not talking about Tarrant. They’re talking about historical grievances. Current grievances.
Again, we have parallel situations in America. Good news, you can fix this problem in two simple steps AND save taxpayer money in the process! One: DEFAULT PATERNAL CUSTODY. Two: NO WELFARE TO WOMEN.
[Prime Minister] Jacinda Ardern is very popular here…
Consistent with widespread acceptance of both Islam and Communism. That’s been America’s experience with female leaders, too.
…and the vast majority of New Zealander’s support the tightening of the gun laws, and the abolition of semi-automatic weapons.
As for banning gangs, studies have shown that’s not particularly effective. In many places, wearing patches in public is prohibited. In my small town, a number of signs on shop doors have a sign saying “no gang patches”. Gangs respect the signs, and leave their jackets in the car.
Banning guns is not effective, either, but that hasn’t ever stopped the gun banners. London banned all guns many years ago and is now so violent that they teach schoolchildren first aid for knife wounds in health class.
Nobody benefits from a gun ban except the government. And if the government bans your guns, Occam’s Razor and recorded history agree that it’s probably because you would object very strenuously to what the government will do to you after the ban.
Well, don’t worry, I’m sure all those criminals with guns and gangs with guns will never take advantage of the fact that after this year, all of their potential victims will not have guns. Vulnerability guarantees safety!
America is very different to New Zealand. You can’t use American logic and American culture and try to apply it to New Zealand. It just doesn’t work.
Telecommunications, cheap & fast travel and sharing the UK as a parent nation appears to have resulted in minimal cultural differences between USA and NZ, at least as far as the politics of firearm ownership go. International Communism/globalism appears to have enjoyed the same benefit, with the result that NZ is falling to the exact same ideology/religion that the United States is.
I wish I could say something to wake up my cousins.