What’s the difference between Communists and Nazis? They hate each other.
I don’t mind the man-up rants directed at MGTOW. They’re proof of progress. They hate us because they can’t ignore their increasing need for us. God willing, one day they’ll be so desperate as to make us a reasonable offer for our cooperation.
However, Vox Day has begun to lie about Christianity and Scripture in his recent efforts to thwart MGTOWs warning young men away from self-destructively raising the white fertility rate. You believe all men should marry and have kids? Fine. You believe Christ demands all men marry and have kids? Problem.
Worse, as I dug into the material VD has apparently gone full white nationalist, I mean Brenton Tarrant level. This is worth fisking just to demonstrate how little either the white nationalists or the feminists care about the welfare of ordinary men.
His blog has a couple relevant posts but the meat of it is on the following YouTube video. All formatting is mine, taken from the automated transcript.
Darkstream 411: Men going evil’s way
17 June 2019
So now, what’s the matter with men going their own way? What’s the matter with men who are in fear and in despair, not unreasonably because of the current situation. Well,
let’s point out the first thing fear is intrinsically bad. Despair is intrinsically wrong. Now, that doesn’t mean that it’s not understandable to be afraid of negative outcomes. It’s normal to be afraid of negative outcomes. It is totally normal to be concerned about bad things happening. It’s totally reasonable for you to try to avoid negative outcomes.
God wired us for fear and thus, fear is not intrinsically bad. Thanks for the examples of fear being helpful.
But here’s where the problem begins to enter in. First of all, the argument is invariably full of lies. It’s invariably very wrong. Every young woman is not a whore addicted to selfies. Every woman does not want to secretly divorce her husband and divorce rape any man that she marries and so forth. Those things simply flat out are not true.
Those things also aren’t what MGTOWs say. We say that so many, not every, women are like that today, and society rewards women so much if they do behave that way, that getting married is uncontrollably dangerous. If you want to marry anyway then God help you in both meanings of the term, but we don’t shame anybody for marrying. Your life, your choice, and please allow us the same.
Is the legal system stacked against men? Yes. Are there negative outcomes? Yes.
So why are we having this Darkstream? Because MGTOWs are afraid to get married? Dude, we’ve been saying as much.
But here’s the thing that’s so ridiculous about the statistics that are so often quoted by these fearful and cowardly men. The statistics are general. They don’t apply to anybody specific.
This is total, feckless bullshit, especially coming from the mouth of someone who talks much about his Very High IQ. This is tantamount to claiming there’s no difference in Russian Roulette between one bullet in an eight-shot cylinder and seven bullets. You either live or die so the odds are always fifty-fifty, right?
Did you know how low the estimated divorce rate is for white church-going
Christians? It’s below 10%.
SUCH feckless bullshit. I know a white church-going Christian friend going through a nasty divorce right now. What an unfortunate outlier he must be, except he’s the latest in a string of white Christian friends, family and coworkers ruined by divorce stretching back to my junior high days thirty years ago.
Take all the statistics away and we men can still see the problem with our own eyes.
You know those Bama studies and so forth are total nonsense and they don’t
account for race, they don’t account for a lot of other [factors], don’t account for income, they don’t account for education.
Yes, we already know that marriage has become an exclusive hobby of the Upper Class. The solution to that problem is NOT to demand that Lower Class men reinvent themselves as Upper Class. It is for our gov’t to restore Biblical marriage.
This is a huge difference in attitude. Restoring marriage is the strong helping the weak to succeed. Making demands is the strong writing off the weak as losers. Which would Christ do? Seeing as He provided us a salvation that we couldn’t gain for ourselves….
There are tons of things that you can do to reduce your risk of divorce and divorce rape and losing your kids and all that sort of thing… but even if you look at the worst possible, most exaggerated version of the argument, how on earth do you compare it to historical periods like, oh, I don’t know, the Black Plague?
The Black Death is preferable. A clean death after less than a week of suffering and kids handle the death of Daddy more easily than his removal by the State. The frivorce-industrial complex, that iron-hearted bitch doesn’t let you die OR recover. EVER.
People did not know how Black Death was spread. Not knowing how to avoid it, men didn’t try to avoid it.
But today, the problem is marriage being weaponized against men. Marriage is avoidable. You don’t ever have to say “I do”. God Himself said as much.
If not having sex was known at the time to guarantee a lifetime free of Plague then many young men would surely have gone childless-bachelor. If the married men had then tried to shame and coerce bachelors into marriage and justified exposing them to Plague with “the good of France and who cares if your children be orphans” then the situation would be very analogous to now.
Can you imagine if every single man living in Europe had reacted in the fearful and cowardly way that these men are advocating? We wouldn’t be here. Western civilization wouldn’t be here.
We’ve heard this argument before. “If all men went MGTOW then what would happen?” Obviously, all humanity would die out… the same as if all men were welders not farmers. Welding is fearful and cowardly behavior!
What they are doing that is wicked and evil as they are, [MGTOWs are] attempting to spread their fear.
Yes. Most men should fear getting involved with women, at least to the point of doing very careful homework. “Don’t repeat my mistakes, young man” is timeless advice. Not wickedness.
They’re attempting to spread their despair.
No. We attempt to spread our selfishness. Nobody cares about you as much as you do. Therefore, you should be careful to live the life YOU want, not a life that others demand of you. They don’t have your best interests at heart. They can’t, because they aren’t you.
Selfishness is Christian. There is no reason to follow Christ except to escape one’s well-deserved damnation. That is a very selfish motivation. Better motivations come with maturity but the fear of God is always the beginning of wisdom. Heh, fear. How about that?
They are literally doing the devil’s work.
The devil’s work is to kill, steal and destroy (John 10:10). We MGTOWs kill nobody. We steal nothing. And the only thing we’re destroying by deliberately living for our personal benefit is the many-faced institution of modern male slavery. Sic semper tyrannis.
[This is important] because when we say these things it’s not about trying to convince the men going their own way to stop going their own way. The problem is that they are intentionally attempting to infect young men who don’t know any better.
You want the young men who don’t know any better about women to not be warned about how bad marriage is today? That is vile. Also, that is the purpose of this Darkstream. Vox Day wants to denigrate MGTOWs as evil anti-Christs so nobody will listen to us.
So much for not punching right.
That’s why when we talk about them being weak and fearful and cowardly, we’re not
trying to shame them, we’re not trying to rescue them, we’re trying to put down the
You’re trying to slander and “put down” us so people can’t hear what we have to say? Isn’t that exactly how Big Social Media wronged you?
Vox Day is appropriating his enemies’ playbook. That’s how little difference there is between white nationalists and socialists.
[MGTOWs] are no different than zombies because the zombies are trying to bite other people and MGTOWs are trying to turn them into zombies, too. They’re trying to turn [their victims] into sterile, barren, pale shadows of men who will never understand or realize their real purpose in life and that’s why this is important.
Implying that man’s purpose in life is breeding. That’s the religion of evolution, again, just like the socialists. Christianity teaches that man’s purpose is reconciliation with God and preparation for eternity. If that makes mortal life nice, great. If not, ask Job.
1 Corinthians 7 gives us God’s permission to either marry or not (and Paul’s recommendation to not) so there’s no argument for marriage as a Christian duty. Vox Day never referred to that chapter or its contents in any of the material I reviewed for this post.
Ignoring data inconvenient to the chosen Narrative. Another play from the Leftoid playbook.
Men going their own way do not speak truth. They lie every single time. Every single man going their own way with whom I have ever engaged has lied and so you
can’t take them seriously. You can’t listen to them.
Repeat the lie enough and people will believe it. Was that Goebbels or Stalin?
Now, can we have some sympathy for them because many of them were mistreated and were abused? Of course, you know, they’re like the soldiers who … tried to do the right
thing and they suffered for it. I feel bad for them, for their experience, we can mourn for them, but what we cannot accept is when they rise up like zombies and begin preaching
their gospel of fear and despair and attempt to infect young men with the evil philosophy that they’re trying to push.
This attitude is straight from Brenton Tarrant’s Manifesto. A quote from its introduction:
To return to replacement fertility levels is priority number one. But it is no simple task. There are myriad reasons behind the decline in fertility rates and the destruction of the traditional family unit. We must inevitably correct the disaster of hedonistic, nihilistic individualism. -Tarrant
Emphasis mine. MGTOW is a threat to white nationalism because we advocate men looking out for their own self-interest. MGTOW is compatible with Christianity because we advocate men looking out for their own self-interest. Don’t gain the world at the price of your soul… the murder-suicide edition.
Vox Day is happy to salute the fallen from his staff car until the fallen start warning the next wave about the minefield ahead. Are we zombies or dissidents?
What good are [MGTOWs]? What use are they? They’re not any good. They’re not useful.
Not if you have an agenda requiring many disposable, gullible, unpaid foot soldiers. MGTOWs tend to wise up the chumps.
There’s even an example here in the Bible explaining the intrinsic wrongness and the divine perspective on them.
This came up in the discussion today on the blog and this guy was trying to justify himself and justify his fear and so he actually tried to claim that God doesn’t want you to take a risk because you might lose your fancy pants and lollipops. He actually said capital rather than fancy pants and lollipops but you know, I think we understand what he’s talking about there.
No, I don’t think we should assume that understanding. Segue:
43. Alphaeus June 17, 2019 9:38 AM
[Opening quotation]”Satan does not want men of God to be fruitful and multiply, he wants them to be rendered sterile by fear.”
Satan can’t tempt us if God doesn’t care what we choose, per 1 Cor. 7.
“Be fruitful and multiply” was a command given to two specific individuals, Adam and Noah. Not only were both capable of ending humanity by refusing to reproduce, both had excellent reasons to do so. Adam had just condemned all humanity to the devil and Noah had just been through an apocalypse so horrible that the first thing he did when the Flood ended was plant a vineyard to get drunk.
Once again, 1 Cor. 7 is the marital standard for Christians. Alphaeus begins:
I think the devil has managed to render many men functionally sterile by re-shaping society in such a way that makes it rational to be sterile, and objectively foolish to try to be married and have children.
As Christ put it, some eunuchs are made that way by society. Even so, that’s society rather than the devil specifically.
So that’s why trying to shame those men who make an objective assessment of the situation and choose not to invest in such a risky venture by calling us cowards, etc, is going to work less and less and less as the world gets more and more and more the way Satan wants it to be.
Yep, exactly. They shame us because they can’t lie to us any longer.
I’m not afraid of a woman trying to push me around and insult me and belittle me and grind me in to the emotional dirt. I’m afraid of the [entire gov’t] and the local dog catcher all coming at me to destroy the family that I worked hard for and invested everything I had or ever will have to build.
Now, THAT is what Satanic behavior looks like. Destroy what the innocent built, steal what the innocent earned and when he’s got nothing left, kill him off. I like Alphaeus thus far.
I’m not afraid of the emotional pain of losing my family as much as I don’t believe in wasting my time just to make my self into a chump when I was able to see it coming from a zillion light years away before it happened. … I believe that MGTOW is a rational choice similar to when I choose not to invest in a Ponzi scheme. Sure, if I get in early I might come out like a bandit, but more likely I will just lose everything I put in to it and feel like a stupid chump mostly because I knew it was a Ponzi scheme in the first place.
God wants people to invest, but God does not want us to throw our capital down a rat hole investing in what seem to be to them losing propositions.
Straight from Matthew 7:6. “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.”
Also Proverbs 22:3. “The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and pay the penalty.” Which is also Proverbs 27:12.
Alphaeus is spot on. He did not deserve Vox Day’s mockery.
I thought that was really interesting because of course it brought a certain verse in Matthew immediately to mind… This is the parable of the three servants [Matt. 25:14-30, recap skipped]. To those who use well what they are given, even more will be given and they will have an abundance, but from those who do nothing, even what little they have will be taken away. Now throw this useless servant into outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
Never mind the parable’s actual meaning. Vox “immediately” thought of it because the wicked servant is a textbook Gamma, hating his master yet not leaving him for a master he could respect. As if MGTOWs cannot do anything to please God without first pleasing a wife!
Vox cited this Scripture merely to call Alphaeus a Gamma without actually saying it. Which is confirmation, not refutation, of Alphaeus’ points.
There is virtually no contribution that any one man can make that is more important than him having children and raising them, having a family, providing for them, marrying a woman, protecting her, that’s what you do if you are a man.
No more important contribution to a racially pure ethnostate, anyway. Many men raise kids but only a few men can repair my air conditioning. Don’t scoff. Africa and South America are full of men raising kids. I would not care to live in either place. My Scottish ancestors knifed each other regularly over nobody-remembers-what while raising lots of kids. I wouldn’t care to live in that place, either.
There’s more to life than breeding.
Now there are exceptions, of course. [On the one hand,] you know Isaac Newton.
Vox’s insinuation here, which elsewhere he has stated outright, is that any man refusing to breed had better have accomplishments on par with inventing calculus. That’s very strange now that he’s claiming refusal to marry is evil. In Christianity, “useful” never excuses “evil”.
On the other hand, what could the world have done if Isaac Newton’s genetics had been preserved? Maybe Isaac Newton’s son, maybe his grandson would be even more brilliant. Maybe he would have discovered nuclear fusion back in the 18th century. We don’t know.
Then sod off. Maybe Newton’s son would have murdered him before he invented calculus. Maybe his grandson would have taught the Third World to grow plentiful food so they could outbreed Europe. We don’t know.
Now, is it true that some men are not called to be fathers, not called to be husbands, yes, the Bible is very clear on that….
This is another lie. Nobody is “called” to marriage and nobody is “called” to bachelorhood. Christ couldn’t have been more clear on this. “For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.” Matthew 19:12.
Only the former can possibly be considered an act of God. You are free to choose whether to marry. Whether to have kids. Whether to go MGTOW. Unless society castrates you first, literally or figuratively.
And then calls you a coward for not overcoming the barriers it threw up in your face.
…and those who are called to celibacy, those who are called to serve God only have that what we understand to be the greatest gifts of all…
Greatest gift? What, only virgin men can channel the power of God? Did Christ demand a perpetually staffed castrati chorus somewhere in the Great Commission?
Give me one example, just ONE in the last half century among ten billion people, of God supernaturally and publicly ordering a specific man to never marry. There isn’t. Most people I give this challenge to, they can’t name ANYBODY except Jeremiah, Jesus and maybe Paul in the entirety of human history. Thus, this “you must be uniquely designated by God Himself to have a celibate life forced upon you as a gift” standard is a dishonest, backdoor ban on bachelorhood that violates Christ’s own words.
…but they’re not going their own way are they they are men going God’s Way and that is not what men going their own way claim to be and it is not what they are doing.
A man holding a divine mandate to never marry would be Ultimate MGTOW. But VD can’t bring himself to admit that God can ever approve of a man never marrying even when God directly orders it. He’s that heavily invested in Moar Babeez.
Vox Day wants to live in a racially homogeneous, quietly prosperous homeland with strong boundaries. So do I. It would be great just to have a neighborhood that universally speaks English and vigorously applies the death penalty to porch pirating. But lying about Christ’s teachings and twisting Christianity into a tool of social utility is how we lost our comfortable America in the first place.
Get your priorities straight, Vox. Christ comes FIRST. Before family. Before nation. Before your genetic legacy. Don’t play the Almighty for a chump or a tool and for your own soul’s sake, don’t adopt the Enemy’s playbook of slandering and silencing people you disagree with.