Larry No Grok MGTOW

A fisking response to “Men find their own solutions to the gender wars”

I believe the gender wars have moved beyond the point at which understanding of their causes can help. The most we can do is clearly see what is happening, speculate about what comes next, and prepare. This is the second post about three solutions that are seldom discussed.

  1. A return to traditional values.
  2. Men finding individual solutions.
  3. A counter-revolution in society.

Entirely wrong. We are still at the point at which understanding can help. See, the gender war is… a war against ordinary, unattractive men. Understand this and the correct solution appears:

4. Give men incentives and rewards for participating in society.

It’s that simple. We want regular sex, at least middle-class money, a seat at the Round Table and ownership of our children, to be raised as we individually see fit.

Larry explores #2 by examining the bachelor’s two options:

… [Game] is the response to women’s liberation. Many of today’s young women have unleashed hypergamy (Wikipedia), expressed as delayed marriage — filling the time chasing alpha men. This leaves most men — betas — on the sidelines as a pareto distribution governs the mating game and ~20% of the guys get ~80% of the women. Game teaches men to imitate alpha’s behaviors. …

I doubt this works well over the long-term for most men using Game. The side effects might be awful, such as cynicism, a bitter view of the world, and an inability to make a stable relationship with a woman. I wonder if Game is the equivalent of women’s delusion that they can party for ten years than marry the man of their dreams.

A reasonable definition of Game. It doesn’t need to work long-term because the male sex drive weakens at middle age. PUAs are simply trying to get through their horniest years the best they can.

Being a cynical 40yo virgin, I can assure Larry that it isn’t casual sex making men cynical & bitter today. It’s female maltreatment of us. Also, it’s government that has made men unable to have a stable LTR with women. We’re only allowed to keep her until she’s unhaaaapy no matter how strong our pimp hand is.

The emphasis is actually Larry’s. No, Game is not the equivalent of hypergamy. Men don’t have an equivalent. We just want our itch scratched and if Larry doesn’t like the PUA path then it’s on him to supply an alternative because men cannot switch off their sex drive. We’re gonna hump something. That’s another fact that society must understand… and accept.

A more common response is MGTOW. It is easier for men to implement and has a larger impact on society. As countless analysts have shown during the past 50 years, in western patriarchal systems, men are socialized to become husbands and fathers – joining the rat race. Now the incentives to do so are eroding away, replaced by the party-of-her-life, marriage, children, and divorce – followed by independence plus child support (vivid details here).

Larry is right the second time. Men are incentivized to participate in society, not socialized. Men naturally want to become husbands because constantly hunting for pussy is tiresome work. Highly masculine men, the thinkers and tinkerers, especially need a frisky woman on-call to scratch the itch so they can concentrate on more important matters than pub crawling and electric guitar. Similarly, men want to become fathers because we like being the head of a family, a king in his own castle. We don’t need to be taught that. We do need our preexisting desire for it to be confirmed and defended by society.

Take away all reasonable chance at matrimony and fatherhood and guess what men will do? They’ll just scratch the damn itch.

Do you know what a society of socialized men looks like? Men who’ve been raised to participate in society out of habit or fear of punishment instead of mutual benefit? It looks like a society of weak men because only weak men need the crutches of Big Brother and female approval. The men who can survive without a society that despises them, survive without that society. You could call that Men Going Their Own Way.

As young men realize this, some decide it is not a rational risk. They decline to join the rat race of education and hard work, following instead the easy path of drugs, booze, porn, casual sex, light work, low stress – and in the future, sexbots. This is our way in modern America. Bold individual solutions! Libertarians!

Sigh, always the shaming language. If you’re living for yourself then obviously, you must be a drug-addicted lounge lizard humping the toaster!

You don’t want us using sexbots? Then give us your barely-legal daughters.

You know what brings this MGTOW happiness? Not drugs! Painting toy soldiers and playing wargames with friends. SCUBA dives, enjoying God’s Creation. Demolition derbies, enjoying idiots hurting each other for my puerile entertainment. Hiring tour guides for whitewater trips in the backcountry of the Sierras, oh what a horrible waste of resources! Stop enjoying life, Gunner! Stop having fun selfishly giving money to so many men who have fun jobs! Those tour guides are supposed to be slaving away in efficient cubicles and your excess resources are supposed to be spent on women who’d rather have sex with corpses than you! (They’re called vampires.)


This is the counter-revolution to our latest experiments on American society (we’re the guinea pigs).

Anybody could have predicted the result. More of an arson than an experiment.

This could drastically shake gender relations in America, disrupt its family structure, and perhaps slow its economic growth.

I don’t give a damn about the long-term, self-inflicted fate of this man-hating society that I’m unable to escape. Few men do, now that women and other parasites are the majority voters.

MGTOW feels good for young men. It might become a bad trip as they age. Low incomes and living alone are fine at 25, but less so at 45. These bitter middle-aged men will be the male equivalents of the single cat ladies (today’s party girls expecting to find their soulmate at 30).

Men are not women. Men are natural producers. We don’t need a constant supply of (other peoples’) resources to enjoy life. Men are also naturally responsible, a source of anxiety that is nullified by intentionally having little to be responsible for. A man living alone with his dog and puttering in a tiny workshop without clocking 40 hours a week to fund his IRA is a relief, not a misery. Proof: this commercial is funny.

If you don’t want men to abandon society then make us a better offer. It truly is that simple. Most MGTOWs will come back for a good offer. However, we won’t listen to additional demands & threats, we won’t come back for mere promises of future reward and we’ll just laugh if you try the “society will collapse without you!” line.

Open a paid apprenticeship. Offer a young man your daughter. Revoke female suffrage. Send the Dindu wage slaves back home. Talk like you respect us, not like you want us batteries re-jacked into the Matrix.

This is only hard because you want a solution that doesn’t fault women.


4 thoughts on “Larry No Grok MGTOW

  1. “MGTOW feels good for young men. It might become a bad trip as they age. Low incomes and living alone are fine at 25, but less so at 45. These bitter middle-aged men will be the male equivalents of the single cat ladies (today’s party girls expecting to find their soulmate at 30).”

    GunnerQ responded:
    Men are not women. Men are natural producers

    Agree there. The writer of the above quote doesn’t really understand men too well if he believes they’ll be the male equivalents of single cat ladies. The bottom line is they need us a lot more than we need them.


  2. It’s odd he doesn’t understand men when he himself is a man. Trying to find equivalency between men & women indicates Tradcon (men and women are the same! Sex differences are social constructs!) but maybe Dalrock will reach him. I have failed to.


  3. >It’s odd he doesn’t understand men when he himself is a man.

    That’s a BIG assumption… that he himself is a “Man” (or indeed, even a “man”). Keep in mind he’s a “Boomer” — a boomer with a lifelong career in the “financial industry” (and moreover SFBay area “finance”).

    Think about that for a minute. Now ask yourself if ANY of that has ANYTHING (at all) to do with his level of comprehension of (true) “productivity” — mind you we’re not talking about increasing ability to “make a profit” (by engaging in financial shenanigans, suckering people into debt, playing pyramid games with their retirement funds, etc) — no we’re talking about knowledge & actual experience producing something of VALUE.

    He doesn’t have a clue.


  4. He’s definitely a clueless Boomer. It’s just hard to understand how people can believe men and women are physically and mentally equal. I once had a licensed doctor tell me, in complete sincerity, that he didn’t know why the Marine Corps had lower standards for women. Testosterone, hello?


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